Fellow Morgan [Quinsta] Breeders -->

[EquineGoddess101]

Hey hey!!

So, I've decided to join the Morgan Quin Bandwagon. Super excited!! As I understand it, the Morgan breed still does not have Appaloosa or Tobiano lines 100% (correct me if I'm wrong).

This is a shout-out to find out what other Morgan breeders are working on right now so that I can be of the most assistance <3 I have no objections to either lines and/or working with grades to get there. Although not colored yet, I've claimed 2 Morgan mares so, I have every intention of breeding both of them towards the same project (not the same stallion - just both to Appaloosas or Tobianos). One is a grey mare but, her sire was a Black Splash Overo. The other is a Dun Smokey Black =)

[Ryuukokoro]

Hi EG! I love the Morgan female lines! Not such a fan of the male lines, so I'm only going to be collecting mares. But I am going to start a tobiano-into-Morgan project next season! ^_^ I'm just trying to finish up my tobiano-and-roan-into-Fjords first lol.

[Daimas]

I bred a silver dapple smokey black this season, but gave her away because I was more interested in getting more QH blood. I have a couple of gorgeous stallions you can use next season to get what you want. Once is a mouse dun and the other is a Palomino

[springacres]

Hi EG!  I'm thinking of starting an appaloosa-into-Morgans project myself at some point... probably once I finish getting silver into Friesians.  I also claimed Dai's silver dapple smokey black Morgan girl, and she may be available next season.  (Incidentally, your grey girl is by my stallion Night Shift... small world, isn't it?)

[EquineGoddess101]

@Ryuu - I am leaning towards the tobiano-into-Morgan project at the moment. And, based on the replies here, it doesn't seem like anyone has jumped in full-force just yet

@Dai - I will definitely keep that in mind! I love the softness of the Mouse Dun.

@Spring - I'm thinking it will be of more use for me to start the tobiano-into Morgan so at least Ryuu isn't working by herself. We can always join you later on down the road to help with the Appy. And, I had a hunch that the Morgan Quin world was fairly small (based on the number in the search results). But, that's okay because now you have one more advocate for Team Morgan!

[springacres]

Well, Morgans are the newest breed of Quinsta, so that's one reason for the low numbers.  I'd love to work on tobiano into Morgans, but first there are other breeds that need it too... Andys, Clydes, Friesians... so many potential projects, so few foals we can keep each season XD

[Ryuukokoro]

Clyds actually do have tobiano! There's only 2 mares out there with it, I totally want to bribe to use one some season... X3

[springacres]

They do?  Well then we need to make it more common. 

[EquineGoddess101]

All right Studs of Secundi! Brace yourselves for these lovely ladies next breeding season - I already have my eye on a handful of Gypsy Vanner Tobianos to initiate the Tobiano-into-Morgan project (they are listed under Mikasa's Description). If anyone knows of a part-Morgan Grade Tobiano stallion, please let me know!

Mikasa


Decadence

[Ryuukokoro]

I just checked all the Grades on Secundi that have been born since the Morgans have been out, and there's no Grades with Morgans in their pedigree. Which means your Morgan project would be the first one on Secundi. ^_^

If you're going to work on tobiano-into-Morgans I might try a different gene. Then when we get further along we can combine them and get tobiano/something Morgans. XD

[Kadana Sorano]

I might consider starting a morgan project as well, since my current (Palo TB) is (accidentily) complete lol  *still finds that amusing*

What other genes do morgans need/should we try for?

[Ryuukokoro]

Colors that don't exist in Morgans:
-Cremello
-White

Markings that don't exist in Morgans:
-fleabitten
-appaloosa
-tobiano

[Kadana Sorano]

ohh Cremello and white sound awesome, and a snowflake appy morgan sounds nice.. cremello snowflake appy?

Let me know what you will try for, then I'll decide from what's left, since I do still have my one project going (I want to see it through, even though I already achieved my goal via another breeding).  I may need advice to make it through with whatever I go for though lol

And yea, if I finish this one, it will be the firts I completed form start to finish, it feels good just having stuck it out as far as I have, I think it's the farthest I ever went lol

[EquineGoddess101]

It never hurts to have more blood in a project like this so that all of the foals don't end up from the same line... And, the Gypsy Vanner studs I have my eye on for this breeding project do have other colors/markings:

http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=543039
[Palomino Tobiano]
http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=505792
[Silver Dapple Mouse Dun Tobiano]
http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=541357
[Buckskin Tobiano]
http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=541360
[Flaxen Red Dun Roan Blanket Appaloosa Tobiano]
http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=551970
[Silver Dapple Blue Dun (Gruello) Tobiano]
http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=551972
[Sooty Buckskin Tobiano]
http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=553122
[Silver Dapple Bay Tobiano]
http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=558234
[Silver Dapple Dun Sooty Buckskin Tobiano]

As Mikasa has a cream gene (and Dun) already - a Double Dilution could very well be a possibility! Regardless of which boys I pick, my main goal is tobiano into Morgans. And Kadana, the more the merrier!

[Ryuukokoro]

I try to avoid cream or yellow dun when I'm doing tobiano, because I find it hard to see paint on a pale yellowish coat. But that's just me. ^_^

[Kadana Sorano]

I think it's pretty.  It is a bit hard to see, but I love the subtelty of it, the ohh pretty cream horse.. wait, is that paint?! nice visual surprise aspect

[Bunraku]

If no one else decides to do white/fleabitten into Morgans I may take it up since I love white horses and I've never done a quin project before, so it should be interesting! Regardless, if someone else dose choose to pursue it, I'm thinking of doing a morgan project because I just love the lines. I know I'm going to be breeding my mare to an offworld stallion to see what she throws me next breeding season just because, now that I have the Luestin fever out of my blood XD

[Ryuukokoro]

That would be a fun project, Bun! I don't think white would be too hard to get into Morgans. It seems to pass pretty easily when I breed my mares to a white stud, I usually end up with a white baby.

Keep in mind if you breed to an offworld stallion, you won't get any new genes that way. You'll only get genes that already exist in the morgan lines. ^^ (I have terrible luck with offworld breedings, I always get a baby that is just brown or bay, with no exciting genes, lol.)

[Bunraku]

It sounds like a good first project for me then ^^ I think I already have the building blocks for it, I'll be getting a white arab stallion from bribes and I already own a fleabitten gray arab (who just might spice up the project with his sabino overo genes...it makes me want to go for a fleabitten sabino overo Morgan) I'm just not certain I want to breed grades out of them XD I have a weird thing about keeping lines "pure" that I think I picked up from back on my PI days (way, way, way back), but in the long run the project would produce beautiful results, and in the real world lines aren't exactly "pure" either, hmmm.

Oh I know! I just wanted her first foal to be from an offworld stallion for some reason, I've never done it before so I wanted to see what it would get me, but seeing as she's brown frame overo I'm guessing that she'd likely throw me a baby just like her!

Speaking of which, this is her: http://www.secundi.net/critterpage.php?ID=557421 Would she be at all useful for a white and fleabitten into Morgan project? She already has the overo going for her if I do a fleabitten sabino overo.

[Kadana Sorano]

I just did a search for Quinsta with snowflake in their agency info box and got all of.. 42 Quinsta.  Total sadness.  So I think if no one else wants to, I will try for snowflake morgan.. and continue on my creamy TB and try and get a creamy snowflake TB

Advice for getting snowflake to show?  I've bred horses that didn't show it before and got it on the foals, and bred horses that one (or both) had it, and can't get it to show on the foals.  Is there anything I should avoid mixing in with the snowflake when trying for visible?

[Ryuukokoro]

Snowflake is NN so that one is a tuffy... Leopard is nn and Blanket is Nn, so it's a lot easier to get those. Because (I think) usually the non-appy parent (in this case the Morgan) probably has little 'nn' for the gene. So the Morgan would only pass little n on to the Grade, no big N's.

I think that's why, even though appy has been introduced to the Fresians, we've only seen Leopard and Blanket so far, no Snowflake.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert in Quin genes so I could be wrong. XD;;

[Kadana Sorano]

So I start with a little n morgan, and breed it to a visible snowflake..

If snowflake is visible it auto means NN then?  and then I get what.. Nn?  Or is there a chance of nn still (or even NN)?

Would I have a better chance to get snowflake if I bred a snowflake with another appy type, or would that give me less of a chance?  (not sure what the little vs big n's mean, is one more dominant then the other, so will cancel the other out)?

Annd I think I'll stop now, I just made my head hurt lol

[Ryuukokoro]

lol nono, you're getting it! It's confusing, I know, but you're doing good! I get confused too. (I hope someone jumps in and corrects me here if I'm wrong.. XD )

Let's say you breed a morgan with 'nn' to a Grade with 'NN' (so yes, Grade is snowflake)

A baby always gets one 'letter' from each parent, so a baby would HAVE to have Nn every time. Which would be Blanket. So if we could find two Quin with NN for sure, then the baby would have to be NN as well!

The only issue is that appy is the only Quin gene with two different letters... first there's the 'LL' which tells if the appy is visible or not, then there's the 'NN' which tells what KIND of appy it is. So if there's a Quin without visible appy, there's no way to tell which 'n' it has...

Maybe we could bribe Sil to tell us which 'n' our morgan mares have...hmm...that would help with the breeding!

Aaand that's about the extent of my knowledge so I'm about to trail off here too... *sticks hands in pockets and wanders away, whistling*

[toffeeca]

Ryuu posted while I was typing, so some of this is repeated, but maybe it will help if its phrased differently.

There are two separate appy genes the "L" gene and the "N" gene. The L gene is like an on/off switch. If the gene is LL or Ll then appy is on(and will show), if it is ll then it is off (and will not show).

No matter what the L gene says, there is always an N gene as well. That N gene can be NN, Nn, or nn. Weather or not the appy shows has no influence on what the N gene will say.

So the first thing to do is to get the "on/off"- "L" appy gene into Morgans. Once you have that gene you can get all the forms of appy, you don't need to bring each type of appy separately.

I made some pictures that might hopefully help (I know the visual helps me, but I know some people are confused by them)
The top is one parent and the left side is another, all the boxes are possible babies.
They are color coded- Red=snowflake, Green= blanket, blue= leopard

Snowflake (NN) X Snowflake (NN) breeding

100% Snowflake

Snowflake (NN) X Blanket (Nn) breeding

50% Snowflake, 50% Blanket

Blanket (Nn) X Blanket (Nn) breeding

25% Snowflake, 50% Blanket, 25% Leopard

Snowflake (NN) X Leopard (nn) breeding

100% Blanket

Blanket (Nn) X Leopard (nn) breeding

50% Blanket, 50% Leopard

Leopard (nn) X Leopard (nn) breeding

100% Leopard

Hopefully that is somewhat helpful and I haven't just confused everything more.

[Ryuukokoro]

Whoo, toff is colorful and explanative! XD Thanks, toff!

Maybe if we bribe Sil to tell us what types of 'n's' our morgans have, we would know which ones to breed with other Quin to get the snowflake.

If we're really lucky, one of our morgans might have NN already but we can't see it because they don't have the 'L' gene that makes the appy visible! Haha!

[Kadana Sorano]

I "think" I got it, am medicine tired so might not, will re-read sometime tomorrow lol

But for now, it seems my best chance of getting snowflake visible on a foal is to breed a vis snowflake to a vis blanket.  Going by the red squares in toffs boxes lol

[Kadana Sorano]

hmmk so.. Equine and Ryu are going for Tabiano, Bun is going for white/fleabitten..

I can take a shot at getting the cremello next season.  If I can talk my son into naming his dang horses *shakes fist at him*  He has a Sooty Buckskin Morgan stud I can use, and I'd pair him with my Goldies Cinderella (She's Flaxen Dun Palomino Snowflake Appaloosa).  And has already given me one Cremello baby when bred to a Sooty Buckskin TB, so I'll try my luck again.  He also has a Sooty Buckskin Morgan Mare that if he doesn;t use I can borrow (if he names her! grrr..) and find a Stud for.  With luck, one of the two will give us the Cremello grade we need.  And if it's Goldies Cinderella that gives it to us, then bonus of already having the snowflake gene floating around in the lines I guess?

Beyond that, I've still got to decide who to breed to Pearl to further my TB project.. *wanders off muttering about all the unnamed Quin she wants to use*

[Lectral]

You don't need a grade to get cremello - breeding two palominos together gives you the same chances of a cremello.  Technically, palomino to buckskin or smoky black would possibly do it as well, but the black gene would also give the possibility of perlino or smoky cream as well... palomino to perlino or smoky cream (and I know we have at least on or two of these already in Morgans) would give decent chances as well, and would eliminate the grade aspect.  But if you're also trying for the appy or pinto genes at the same time, you can of course ignore this XD

[Kadana Sorano]

hehe yeah, I was looking around after posting that, and revamped my Morgan breeding plans a wee bit.  My son has both male and female sooty buckskin morgans I can use (once I poke him to name them lol) they are mother/son, but breeding to differant quin so should be fine I think.  And I'm planning to pair those two to my Goldies Cinderella (if I did the search right, she's the only Quin on Secundi with all her genes visible O.O ) so that will give me a grade, but hoping to have the snowflake gene swimming around in the foals system somewhere lol!  Then pair my Palo morgan male (Handsome Devil) with the mare.

Annnd then I have my own Pandora (just buckskin, not sooty) and want to pair her with Dai's Golden Desire.

That is of course still assuming he isn't breeding his Morgan mare again this season.  I think he did last season though, so I should be fine.  And that will give me 1 Grade from sooty buckskin x flaxen dun palomino snowflake, and 2 full blood morgans, both from Palomino's x buckskin and sooty buckskin.  That gives me 3 chances to get cremello.. 2 chances to get cremello Morgan straight off.  Increased chances, can't be bad.. until they are here, and I have to choose which to keep and which to let go.. then it's bad hehe

[Kadana Sorano]

Welll the grade Morgan breeding gave me Cremello (Flaxen Dun Cremello) but the two full blood Morgan breedings were fails.  I got Smokey Black (which is of course lovely just not the color I was aiming for lol) and Chestnut.