Pose Referencing?

[red_uni387]

As I was looking for ref pics to color some premades, I found this picture


It looks really similar to the adult male Mustela, and I wanna make sure it's classified as just referencing and not art theft before startig any threads or anything. ^^

[XLostxDestinyX]

omg how cute! I dont think it would be considered art theft, its just the natural pose you got from a real picture of the animal. But im not an expert
Must have one tho! too cute <3 <3

[Sunchaser]

i dont see it as artleft but thats just me >.>

[red_uni387]

I'm just making sure, cause what I might not see as art theft might be seen as art theft to others

Thanks for the replies!! <3

[springacres]

I don't see it as theft.  There are only so many different poses you can draw for any given animal, after all.

[indigowulf]

edited; I was mistaken, as below.

[The Mustela]

This is a Secundi only adoptie

[indigowulf]

Ack. I may have been wrong on the overlap thing. Im not trying to abuse your adoptable, I only used the image for this question, but if you wanna see how they over lap and decide for yourself, here it is:

[Goddesss]

I just wanted to say that even with the over lay I would not consider this art theft.  I am sure any animal adoptable if I looked long enough I could find the exact same pose somewhere in a picture.

I also wanted to say that I think this says alot about your character Red you were just getting ready to start these and you saw that image and wanted to double check.  Alot of people wouldnt have done that.  *hugs*

[YourLoveOnly]

Honestly I think it looks like the artist indeed traced that image. I agree with Goddesss I'm sure you can find the same pose of any realistic animal if you look long enough, but this is just too spot on in my opinion.

If I'm right then I feel really bad for you red.. I agree with Goddesss that this showed true character. You are an awesome person and I would feel really bad for you if this would be ruled art theft.

[Lectral]

Where did you find the pic? 

Normally, I believe it would be considered art theft to trace directly from a photograph, or just to reference it that closely (remember Serendipities on PI?  this is exactly what got them in trouble - a large portion of their poses were too heavily referenced from real sculptures and photos).

However, if the artist who drew your lines was the one who took the photo originally, or otherwise owns the rights to reproduce the photo, then they are allowed to trace/reference the photo.  Though that is hard to tell online.

I do realize PI has odd rules about some things, but they are usually fairly accurate with regards to art theft/copyright stuff

[Leafy]

PI's full of more than just snot, but their copyright rules are correct. That pic could be classified as heavily referenced, not that there's anything wrong with referencing either, it's outright tracing that's a problem :\ I don't know that I'd call that completely traced either, the pose is very similar, and the head/back match up, but everything below that is different. I wouldn't finger it for art theft personally. It is incredibly cute though ^_^

[Math]

Where did you find the pic? 

Normally, I believe it would be considered art theft to trace directly from a photograph, or just to reference it that closely (remember Serendipities on PI?  this is exactly what got them in trouble - a large portion of their poses were too heavily referenced from real sculptures and photos).

However, if the artist who drew your lines was the one who took the photo originally, or otherwise owns the rights to reproduce the photo, then they are allowed to trace/reference the photo.  Though that is hard to tell online.

I do realize PI has odd rules about some things, but they are usually fairly accurate with regards to art theft/copyright stuff

That is exactly what this reminded me of. I do hope that you are able to run the adoptable Red_Uni as I would love to get a couple. I wouldn't call this art theft.

[The Mustela]

Unfortunately I can't see the image right now cause I'm at school, but even just looking at the 2 different pics it does look similar to me, which is the entire reason I posted lol

The picture I found online from google, just searching 'ferrets'.

[WillowDragon]

I have used animal pictures in *reference* before... for a leg bend, or a toe spread.

But honestly, this does look like somebody traced the outline and then built on it... the head is far too exact for it to have just been referenced.

Be very very careful with this, I do hope it turns out okay, it is an adorable adoptable... but I think this needs to be looked at seriously by the Secundi Council.

W xx

[red_uni387]

am home now and wow the image really does look traced o.o

fangy pointed out to me at school that if one was traced there's a chance the others were as well, and I did find this pic


which looks similar to the baby male


haven't found anything for the females though, will continue looking after my HW. shall also be sending a PM to Pipsqueak asking if she did trace, and if she could redraw, since I spent the same on these as I did on the cat templates for the pet shop :|

edit: thank you goddesss and ylo <3

[indigowulf]

Id report her to PI if you bought them there. I know for sure PI would consider it art theft. Show them both of the images you showed us, along with the images you bought. Possibly, at the very least, you can get pg back from her if it is traced.

I doubt she will admit it if she traced the images.

Beyond that, ask the council here to make a ruling on it? They are the ones with final say, the rest of us can just offer opinion.

[PonyMama]

I would have said that the first may have been a fluke, but with the second lining up so much as well (here is the overlay), this is probably heavely referenced, and probably traced

[red_uni387]

I've never bought stolen art before, so I'm probably gonna mess up something Dx will submit a support ticket to the MODs, though I'm not sure if they'll refund PG

Thank you for the overlay, PonyMama <3
posted them here hoping someone would do that cause I don't know how >.>

and I'm pretty sure this wil be ruled as art theft, seeing as there are 2 images very similar to pics off the internet

[PonyMama]

no problems, I am looking for the other poses online see if anything comes close.
I hope since they were purchased on PI that they will deal with it

[red_uni387]

I hope they will, the user's been selling other sets of artwork for 1 million PG D:
though these were a commission, and I think that may be why both males are so heavily referenced...

edit: oooo yeah I did mess up x_x shoulda waited and looked for similar pics for the female before starting a thread >.<

[PonyMama]

but does that make it right?  No if she needed references of course but just to learn how they can move and stand, then go and make something yourself, don't trace basic shape and make it your own?

[red_uni387]

I'm not saying it's right, just thinking that's maybe why it's so similar

[PonyMama]

the female baby doesn't look ferret to me, just too short in the body, but nto too sure what it looks like to me

[Solistia]

You may want to try looking up Polecat, Weasle or Martin, they have very similar body structures as ferrets, and could just as easily have been used for "reference"

[Wolfs Fang]

D:

*hugs Red* I'm sorry, Red, but they really do look traced...  At first, I didn't think that they were traced at all, 'cuz after all it's very likely that if you have a picture of a random animal, you could find another picture that looked similar to it. But after seeing indigo's overlapping the two pictures, I'm not so sure. :/ And the fact that you found another similar-looking picture makes it even more likely that the Mustela lineart was heavily referenced/traced.

I'll try and help by searching for more similar-looking pictures. <33 I hope that I don't find anything, but I just want to do anything that will help clear this up.

~Fang

[PonyMama]

Yeah I have been looking under weasel, mink and ferret so far

[red_uni387]

I did not think of that, thanks Solistia <3

thanks Fangy, if she did trace then more evidence is better

[indigowulf]

Lets see if I can help you red- cut and paste the following, entering a screenshot of your payment to pipsqueak for these lines, and open a ticket under "adoptables": (of course feel free to put it in your own words, and fix my spelling, just typed this in case you didnt know what to say )

I purchased these lines: (insert line images here) from Pipsqueak, proof of purchase screenshot: (image here). I have sence come to realize these are most likely art theft. I would like to know what recourse I have in recovering my funds, and let it be known by the Pony Island staff that this issue exists, so you may take the proper actions against the artist should you deem it neccessary. Here is why I believe it is art theft (these images are randomly found on google, the 2nd images are them superimposed with the lines she sold me):




I am aware that the "artist" has right to privacy and you may not inform me if anything happens to her, but I request that I be informed about 1) your ruling on these, if they are theft or not, and 2) if they are ruled as theft, what I can do, and if you will possibly assist me in recovering my losses.

Thank you.

[red_uni387]

I already sent in a ticket XD

[red_uni387]

that...was fast O_O

Thank you!

After discussion, it's been decided that the lines and the photos are far too close and do fall under theft -- even if the legs aren't positioned exactly, the body lines up perfectly and it is not a common pose. Unfortunately, you won't be able to use these for anything as a result.

and the reply from the artist D:

Oh my gosh!! I am so, so sorry! I really did not realize that was art theft; and I can work to pay you back. I am truly, truly sorry, and I just can't express it.

I have looked back in our PM's (surprisingly they're still in my inbox) and I think i've found the price it was. Was it 500k? or more?
I'll send you the 500k, with extra because of my stupidity and your wasted time.
If it was more, just send me another PM and I'll try to get you any extra i can get.

[YourLoveOnly]

At least she admitted it and gave you a refund.
Too bad though, the art was very pretty and I know you were so excited about these. *hugs* I'm sorry for you honey <3

[red_uni387]

yeah...I'm kinda stuck on a reply :/ Though I dunno if I can use the females since we haven't found any ref. pics for them.....or would it be safer to just not use anything?

*squishes*

[indigowulf]

well, if she's fessing up, you could ask her about them.

[YourLoveOnly]

I think if she send a full refund they have probably all been referenced. You could ask her, maybe she'll tell you honestly. I wouldn't risk it myself, if I were you I would feel worse if the reference pics showed up further down the road and the adoptie would get shut down, that would be a bigger mess D=

[PonyMama]

I searched for hours and found nothing for the female baby and the female adult
I found things similar but nothing that was traced

I really don't think the baby if it was traced was traced from anything in the ferret family, but it is secundi counsel's call

[Neocridders]

Red, it was very good of you to ask such a question, I know it would have been hard to do something like that when you know you paid so much for them. It's a disappointment.
The 'artist' seems to have talent. The fur and faces are fantastic. It's just they seem uncomfortable with poses or anatomy or something. That really sad to have happened, but at least the user is willing to refund you. It took a lot of courage to post something like this. I don't know if I could have, honestly. Good job. But I'm really sorry how it turned out for you.

[YourLoveOnly]

I think the pose was indeed traced from a completely different animal, but if it was traced it is still not okay to use. It doesn't have to be the same species to be art theft, tracing is never okay.

And because she admits to it and seems genuinely surprised I would probably give her a kind reminder that if she sold any other referenced artwork she needs to warn the buyers before they get into trouble.

[PonyMama]

I was thinking skunk myself but didn't know for sure and had to go to bed

[indigowulf]

I have a possible solution.. I can try taking pics of my 3 ferrets and give you rights to my photos. then you can ask her to turn them into lineart. Problem is, will you be able to afford getting them re-shaded by G?

[PonyMama]

Pipsqueak should offer to pay for the second shading IMO

Indigo that is an awesome idea though, then tracicing reference woudln't be so bad

[red_uni387]

sent her a message asking

she actually sent me more than a full refund, said it was cause of my wasted time and her stupidity, and is what I ended up paying in total with the shading. though I am really sad cause it took over a month to get G to finally complete the shading >.<

O_O you searched for hours PM? *big hugs* thank you so much <333

I really wasn't thinking of the PG when I posted, Neo, just was concerned after being around the Zentaur issue and really didn't want to be caught in the middle of something like that.

shall send that reminder when she replies, YLO

how ironic. skunks were my first adoptie x_x

that might work....do you think you could send her a PM too? so she'll know I'm not lying >.> (and she changed her name to Minkiekat)
and I can afford it, but G has stated she's only taking one commission at a time and not opening adoptie commissions until further down the road..

and you guys post so fast XD

[indigowulf]

*strangles carpet sharks* sit STILL and let me get a good pic! they are all wired right now, 3 way wrasslin match, and none of them want to pose. Its not a good idea for me to get an outdoor shot, since they have to be harnessed to go outside or Ill lose them (ferrets have no homing sense, once they get out, they are gone. already lost 1 that way (he found a hole in laundry room)

[red_uni387]

it's easy to get a good pic when you take a ton. when my kitty cleans himself I snap around 30 of them trying to get a single good one with his tongue out xD

awww poor ferret

[indigowulf]

sadly, im using a camera phone that is a piece of doody. if they move, it blurs and you cant see anything. uploading anythign i have thats decent into my main photobucket folder (same one for my adoptables)
http://s772.photobucket.com/home/adoptablehaven/index

see if anything in there even comes close to the quality you'd need.

[red_uni387]

I like the one looking into the distance and the dirty one

[PonyMama]

Ferret butt
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/adoptablehaven/bjsoapfoam.jpg

[red_uni387]

awww so cute

[indigowulf]

Most of those are my baby, BJ. the butt is him pouncing into a huge pile of soap foam, one of his favorite toys. He rolls in the wet area left over in the carpet when the bubbles are popped as if it was catnip lol.

the dirty one is him in his sand box. hes looking up at my hand pouring sand on him lol.

Ill keep trying to get more, higher quality pics. you're free to use any I post in there at this time, just let me know, ill post permission of use, and if i have to ill post proof of ownership if need be (my face next to the babies lol)

[red_uni387]

wow you have solid foam o.o

she just logged on, so hoping for a response soon

edit: YLO was correct

I think I did, but i can't be sure. I will double check, as I think i still have the Photoshop layered version of it still.


- - Yes, I did. I'm really sorry! I found their pics on there-- they're not as close, but yeah, i did use reference pictures and they are probably too close. The baby not so much as the mom, but they're still pretty close.