My ban and discussion: title changed now i have calmed down

[Keeper]

Ok so i need to vent and i have only signed up here recently but i really hope you all understand.

Please im upset enough if you dont agree with me just dont reply. thankyou.

I got banned because i reported a thread because it had a swear word that ponyisland deems safe for children to write.
I am so annoyed that this is not CLEARLY stated in the real rules and is just mentions in a news thread made july of last year.
They could have just told me that it was acceptable on pi instead of banning me for being a helpfull user.

My faith in PI is really failing me right now, new mods bring new bans every time and they get all ban happy and they dont realise what it does to people. they have no idea how to talk to users and explain things.

I am no new user and feel like im being treated like a child.

now i have to deal with the profanity on the side of my page where it says i have a forum ban and bla bla "insert the swearword here" is allowed on pi. Do they think that just because its allowed on pi i should have to look at it everyday for a week?

I mean im not one to hate people who swear but its a childs site and what if i had children having a go on my account and now there is a nice red swearword for them to read everyday for a week.
I dont have children but thats not the point.

sorry end of rant. Hugs appreciated.

[Taruia]

I agree that PI has rather ambiguous rules and likes to wield the ban hammer rather quickly, but I will let you know that Secundi is a PG-13 site, and as such we allow mild swearing. I hope that this will not make you want to leave, but I didn't want it to come as an unpleasant surprise.

[Keeper]

Nope its perfectly fine i dont mind to be honest but when they say one thing and write their rules without being clear it just really annoyed me XD

[Lectral]

I think the big thing with PI is that they decided to allow a lot of words because they aren't considered "swear words" in many locations - I agree that I don't like to see them, and I do not agree with a lot of the ones they decided to allow, but banning for reporting one, even without realizing that it was allowed seems a little harsh >.>

[Kadana Sorano]

I seem to recall them saying they were going to start taking a much harsher view of people who reported falsely.  Something about the new support system, and how it would better enable them to moderate.  If in doubt, ask in a support ticket before reporting I believe is what was said.  and false reporting would be punished.

That said, I always wondered on the "if in doubt" part.  And it quite frankly made me leery to report anything for the fear THEY would deem it false.. even though I had no doubts at all.

Still.. I never dreamed they would actually ban someone for reporting something inacurately.  Especially when it's so clear there was no malicious intent involved :S

That said, Hello Keeper!  And welcome to Secundi *hugs*

[XLostxDestinyX]

O.o
Hello keeper! I'm new too! *huggs*
Will you be bringing the Shineys here?

[PonyMama]

as I stated in PM.  To ban you fine, sorry about it but I kinda understand, let's make an example of you.  But to actually include the word int eh ban for you to look at each day is rude on their part.  They could just leave it as Abuse of report button -reporting a non starred out word.
to place the word that obviously coudl be offensive to others in the ban too seems a little bit malicious

[Keeper]

Exactly, what if it was a child account they did this too?
I'm more annoyed at the way they did it rather than the actual ban. They just seem to have no patience anymore.

I may bring shineys here soon XD

[Ryuukokoro]

0_o THAT is worth banning on PI? A report that they deemed unnecessary? Glad I'm not there anymore.

[PonyMama]

Well of course Ryuu.  The Report button was created so that they could ban people for using it without asking if they use it first. *Rolls eyes*

They created it so that people wouldn't feel they had to "bug" mods about silly things and that if a mod wasn't busy they could see what threads were reported and check it out, then they came out with support tickets so it would be easier, but instead of removing the said report button they now just ban people for reporting something they think may be bad instead of messaging them and letting them know that this was a false report, as they should have known to open a support ticket instead.

[Tribe]

Okay what makes me mad about pi is the fact that they run around willy nilly allowing someone to ban you who in real terms is no better than you. They are normal users whom have maybe been around just as long as or shorter term then you. They probably havnt read all the rules to the t & they usually get a better treatment no? some of the mods (like glor) are good ol fashioned you break a rule you get the punishment. Thats fine i understand however some of them..i think you broke the rule..you get the punishment and so let it be.

PI is a PAID for site, i understand the rules and i understand you should read them when your signing up but they should have NO RIGHT to ban you for as long as they do (ie 2 weeks) without refunding you money? i love that secundi is free, i shouldnt have to pay to enjoy myself all the time. Its nice to skip away from the real world where USD is always needed no?

[Tribe]

I also love here we are allowed to let our feelings out about thins with out worry..ohhhh ho ho hho ho ho free speech is amazing..


i was once told on PI that freedom of speech wasnt really allowed as they had more then just the us on there..now they are okay with other people swearing because its allowed in thier country .. they just bug me really

[Keeper]

I'm so glad im not the only one who feels this way, just the fact that i felt the need to come here to get support shows that this is where i should be and not on a site that does this to its users.

[Tribe]

I was so afraid of leaving pi there for awhile..i mean ive got SO much invested in that site its not funny. But i was like eh..i can stay here and be miserable with the way things are done or i can go over to secundi and feel fine with everything be happy with a site and whatnot..so i did. I must say its a great choice to live here in my fantasy land rather then pi.

[Keeper]

I think i will stay there to quest my ponies but i think i will start to pull all my adoptable things away from there, may aswell since its really valentines week and i put my forum up yesterday and now my ban is untill 18th so my mailing list gets to just watch as nothing gets done.

Will get shineys sorted and moved over this week then XD

[Tribe]

-will stalk shineys-

[Keeper]

yay, Im just sorting them out and getting some new stat cards so we can do more with them so should be fun. XD
Will start a thread soon and put an auction up to get a general idea of prices etc <3

I do feel so much better now thankyou all for listening to me

[XLostxDestinyX]

- Seconds the shiney stalking -

[Wolfs Fang]

On the ban, it depends on how you worded your report. Maybe you said it in a way that was a bit offensive. Also, what was the "swear word" posted in the thread? The MODs might have thought that you were unnecessarily trying to report someone.

MODs don't just randomly ban people. There's almost always a good reason for the ban.

And another thing- international law prevents minors under 13 from posting in forums without their parent/guardian's permission. Or that was the case last time I checked. People 13 and over should be able to handle mild swearing, and if a parent gives their child permission to post/view forums, the parent should know that their child can possibly view information that the parent may deem as inappropriate for their age. If the child is posting/viewing forums without their parent's permission, then if they see a swear word or something else inappropriate, it's their own fault.

[PonyMama]

She was complaining more about the way the ban is posted for her.  She finds the word offensive in some way and in the ban itself it says the word for her to see through the whole ban.

[Wolfs Fang]

She was complaining more about the way the ban is posted for her.  She finds the word offensive in some way and in the ban itself it says the word for her to see through the whole ban.

Ohhh... Making her see the word every time she logs on is a bit mean. :/ But then again, the MOD that did it might not consider the word offensive.

[PonyMama]

I just think it is unneccessary for them to add it, they could have just said "Abuse of report button -reporting a non starred out word"  But in giving examples it is liek they are throwing it in the face of the person who may in fact find this word offensive.

Keeper is being a trooper abotu her ban and doesn't seem to care too much, but the offensive word is staring her in the face, and that is uncalled for no matter what

[Soup]

What keeper has not mentioned is that I have discussed it with her on pi and I am trying to sort something out for her.  Also, in terms of the rule not being in the rules:

If the rule breaking involves inappropriate content or trolling on the forums, please report it using the "Report" button located at the bottom of the thread. Please do not abuse the Report button. Using the Report button to report threads which do not break PI rules or as a means to harass another player will result in a ban.

Just my 2 cents.

[Soup]

Well of course Ryuu.  The Report button was created so that they could ban people for using it without asking if they use it first. *Rolls eyes*

They created it so that people wouldn't feel they had to "bug" mods about silly things and that if a mod wasn't busy they could see what threads were reported and check it out, then they came out with support tickets so it would be easier, but instead of removing the said report button they now just ban people for reporting something they think may be bad instead of messaging them and letting them know that this was a false report, as they should have known to open a support ticket instead.

No.  The function of the report button was never this.  the report button was introduced to report "Extremely offensive content" such as people posting porn, very offensive comments dropping LOTS of fbombs (this is before the filter was introduced as well), not making asking for threads to be deleted, replies to be removed etc.  That was always supposed to be PM a MOD.  the support sytem was then introduced for everyone - easier for users so if a MOD went offline they could still get their question answered, easier for mods since we can all see them.



Its in the rules.  It's also been in a couple of psa's. 

[PonyMama]

She explained that to me, and I had told her hopefully that will result in the word being removed, because I do think to have it as an example is a bit harsh.

Heck I don't speak to my dad anymore becasue of that exact word, he feels it is swearing and it caused a rift between us, I persoanlly feel that if people are being banned for using the button without first contacting a mod via support ticket, then remove the button

[Soup]

But the reason behind the report button was for reporting extremely offensive material.  If someone makes a thread full of porn, and for some reason there are no MODs about, if the report button is clicked 5 times the thread is deleted.  That is the whole point of the report button. 

[PonyMama]

or as a means to harass another player will result in a ban

Ok but if she wasn't doing it to harass another player, and in her home this is a swear word, so she was reporting it as such it could have been stated to her then that this was not the case for most people, and that becasue fo this rule she woudl need to be banned.  I am sure she would have been ok but to post the actual word in the ban as an example, is this not harassment in itself?

[Goddesss]

Could someone please pm me the word?

[Soup]

In this case this is the relative quote:

sing the Report button to report threads which do not break PI rules

reporting a thread which does not break PI rules.  In terms of the word being in the ban reason, I have discussed this with her to see if I can help - obviously the word is not offensive to whoever posted the ban and agreed it, so they obviously did not see that they would cause such offence.  MODs are still human, and believe it or not, not completely infallible.  Mistakes happen and its something Keeper and I have discussed.

However, the rules clearly state that is  word is not starred, it is not a swear word.  The rules were updated recently for clarity, a PM was sent to all users, so it is not like it is something that has just been ninja's in there.

My concern on this thread, in all honesty, was the claim and the subsequent assumption that this is not covered it the rules - only in a news thread.  I wanted to clear up that misunderstanding and show that it is in the rules.

[PonyMama]

I do not dispute that, of course she obviously broke a rule, the thing that gets me is to use it as an example, I think that should be changed.  Luckily she told me she did let you know of that after I told her to bring it up, and I hope that will be changed in the future for everyone, becasue it is a bit of a rude thing to do.
And yes MOD's are human which is why things like using it as an exmaple should be brought up (maybe not on other sites, but this is where a lot of us rant and hopefully cool down), so maybe that can be changed, and we for sure all know it is in the rules now so hopefully it won't happen again.

I do hope this will be fixed, and I do believe keeper is calmer now anyways, she was considerably mad earlier and I don't blame her for that, but she never once stated she should not be on a ban to me

[StarDrifter]

-hugs- I know how you feel - I made a post asking what was ok to report because as my daughter gets older I notice more and more things that I dont want her seeing if she were to be on PI

and because I said LMAO I ended up getting myself banned - then the MOD I was dealing with was really really rude when I PM'ed her about it because it was 'clearly stated' that I was to open a ticket
about my ban :/

I must say I was mad to not get a warning PM of some sort, but just because in my head LMAO is laughing my arse off doesnt mean that everyone else feels or thinks the same way :/

Who knows - maybe according to PI 'arse' is a swear word too 

[hiyoko]

I'm really only on PI for one reason and I hope the owner of that adoptable moves it over here one day, as she does have an account here.

But I do think it sucks to be banned for that reason, especially when we have to pay to "play" on the site. Then again, I never report things for that very reason.

[red_uni387]

I got banned for mini modding once....so now I bombard the MODs with tickets with little things like wrong forums hehe

[PonyMama]

But covering up swear words with letters like LMAO are not permitted, and you could say I meant arse all you want but that is not how others will read it, same as WTF, I could say I was saying "Whatever Tom Fig" but that is not what people read, so that is bannable for that reason.
Same with mini modding, it is against the rules, and to do it is goign to get you a ban.

[red_uni387]

except I reported someone for mini modding and the MOD that replied said the person was simply 'requesting more information'. hello? that IS mini modding in that case. (asking the person to post a link for proof the adoptie had gone through intros)

(totally going off topic, but I'm still kinda upset about this >.<)

[Neocridders]

Honestly, half of that seems typical PI. Half does not.

The half that seems like PI is the part where they treat you like a child and get a bit ban happy and ban without a trial, a conversation, or any details at all.
That seems like the power-hungry monarchy that is PI.

It really makes me angry when I see the announcement 'New Mods'. I understand people get busy or things come up and need to leave their post, but I feel like there are always new mods about. And each time that happens PI is changed. And it is usually not for the better.

The part of your ban that confuses me is that you were trying to help. I mean, I have been attacked by a mod because I was 'mini-modding'
What? I can't let the person know what is and is not allowed? I do remember that Mods used to be picked based on what they have done on PI. If I can't try to help out people, instead of them ending up getting a pointless ban for a harmless mistake...

I don't know... it just seems so stupid. I mean, I got a warning, but I know that was lucky. I know they just swing that ban-hammer around whenever they feel like it.

Bbuuuuut I got away from my point, sorry.


Um, the part that confuses me is that you were not posting the bad word (and honestly, PI would ban someone for that I know.)
you were banned because you were thinking a word was not acceptable. Wow. That i hardly a crime. I hate how they don't do a thing for art theift when it is obvious, or cases where a user is never paid for a product, but when you are trying to help out, you are hit down so fast you don't know what to say.

In all honestly, I can't believe that they did not have a sort of 'meeting' or something, and go over the word and maybe find reasons why or why not it should be allowed. But no, the ban-hammer.

So sorry for that I have never been banned, but I am pretty much done with PI. I was hoping to stay, but honestly, the moment I saw new mods, well, that was the last time I was on PI I believe.

[Wolfs Fang]

Wow. Just wow.

You people can bash PI all you want. And if you can't handle it when people enforce the rules, then go to hell, you darn jerks. Honestly, I now see Secundi for what it really is. Just a bunch of whiners who can't stop complaining about how everything sucks. Honestly, I'm sick of how everyone here whines about how PI is "OMG SO EVIL."

And why am I doing this? Because I can. Hah. And now I'm prolly going to get banned from this site because of what I've just said. Such hypocrisy.

[Gidgets]

Nope, you can say that all you want, just like anyone else. People are free to speak their mind, vent if needed, debate all they please so long as it's within PG-13 guidelines.

That said, everyone should be aware that they are responsible for the consequences of what is said, even if allowed to say it.

[PonyMama]

I did not whine, I was stating my opinion.  And having a rather friendly debate so to say with Soup (and I know who she is on PI too).  I do believe I also stated that some of the bans were legit and why.  So don't say we are all whiners, and I don't feelt he others are either, they are venting where it is safe to do so, but once said it is hard to take back

Yes Garney said it best

[hiyoko]

Wow. Just wow.

You people can bash PI all you want. And if you can't handle it when people enforce the rules, then go to hell, you darn jerks. Honestly, I now see Secundi for what it really is. Just a bunch of whiners who can't stop complaining about how everything sucks. Honestly, I'm sick of how everyone here whines about how PI is "OMG SO EVIL."

And why am I doing this? Because I can. Hah. And now I'm prolly going to get banned from this site because of what I've just said. Such hypocrisy.

Wolfs Fang, that's pretty harsh. It's rare any of us actually bring up PI and when we do it's because something we think is unfair happened or someone on there upset us. Secundi is a site where we can mostly say what we want without fear of being banned, but even so we don't judge others simply because of a bad day they had. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but maybe Secundi isn't for you as much as PI aparently is. You may think this doesn't involve me, but that's too bad.

[Soup]

It really makes me angry when I see the announcement 'New Mods'. I understand people get busy or things come up and need to leave their post, but I feel like there are always new mods about. And each time that happens PI is changed. And it is usually not for the better.

Wow.  Its been over a year (in fact it has been what, a year and 3 months?) since new MODs were added.  I was in the last batch to be added in October.  PI is constantly growing and evolving, there needs to be new MODs added to help with the increasing player base.  Its already been stated, several times, that it quite clearly states in the rules if you use the REPORT function (which is for reporting highly offensive material such as porn, swears - before the filter etc) to report a thread which does NOT break the rules of PI, then a ban will be issued for it.  I don't understand why this is still being brought up?

As for the Mini MODDING thing?  Asking someone to see their 3 weeks intros threads is OK, demanding to see them becasue you think they have committed art theft, or you don't think they have been through intros, or posting "You're going to get banned for doing xxxx" is mini modding, and the whole point of the ban was people were saying OMG UR GUNNA GET BANNINATED when in fact the user had done nothing against the rules.  PI has MODs for a reason - the users don't need to threaten other users with bans for their actions.

red_uni - in reference to you "bombarding" the MODs with tickets - I don't know if you feel you are hindering us in any way but actually you're not.  In fact you are really helping us.  See, we can't be everywhere at once.  We rely on people like you, submitting the Support Tickets so we can look into it and so we can also let you know the outcome.  That was another big problem with the report button - people were complaining that nothing ever seemed to be dione, but the reality is we get SO MANY that require no action at all, it seemed liek the mods were sitting on their bums doing nothing.  To date I think we have resolved nearly 5000 support tickets.

So far PM and I have had a very civil and informative debate, on both sides.  Wolfs fang - I understand maybe you are feeling like we are being attacked or PI is being slandered in any way, but please just take a second, calm down and think about what you are typing before you hit submit - you wouldn't want to regret it later.

[Soup]

I must say I was mad to not get a warning PM of some sort, but just because in my head LMAO is laughing my arse off doesnt mean that everyone else feels or thinks the same way :/

Who knows - maybe according to PI 'arse' is a swear word too 

Arse IS a swearword on PI.  It is starred.  There is no warning PM sent because it is in the rules.  the rules you said you accepted and understood whern you signed up.  the same rules that were updated for clarity and news Pm's sent to everyone reminding them to read them.

[Lectral]

Wow.  Its been over a year (in fact it has been what, a year and 3 months?) since new MODs were added.  I was in the last batch to be added in October.

I think she's probably referring to the PM we got last month on PI, and the thread is the second one in the News forum there.  Five mods were added in January.

I am still a fairly reasonably active member of PI (at least, as active as I have ever been, which has never been huge), and while I don't generally "whine" about things there, since I usually don't have a reason, I completely understand people need a place to vent sometimes.

*puts on Secundi mod hat*  As long as things are kept civil, under PG-13 as Garney/Gidgets reminded, and no one starts flaming anyone.  Otherwise, we'll have to start putting people in a time out or something...

[Neocridders]

It really makes me angry when I see the announcement 'New Mods'. I understand people get busy or things come up and need to leave their post, but I feel like there are always new mods about. And each time that happens PI is changed. And it is usually not for the better.

Wow.  Its been over a year (in fact it has been what, a year and 3 months?) since new MODs were added.  I was in the last batch to be added in October.  PI is constantly growing and evolving, there needs to be new MODs added to help with the increasing player base.  Its already been stated, several times, that it quite clearly states in the rules if you use the REPORT function (which is for reporting highly offensive material such as porn, swears - before the filter etc) to report a thread which does NOT break the rules of PI, then a ban will be issued for it.  I don't understand why this is still being brought up?

I know it has been over a year. I've been on PI for many years. It is not that I am opposed to new people in charge, and it is not that I have anything against any mods. I don't. But when new mods come, in my OWN opinion from my own experinces, that is when things start to get so locked down. PI is a fantastic place, but when the new mods are released, there seem to be countless bans over things that could have been resolved. Things that honestly were a misunderstanding on the Mod's fault.


I always understood the report button. I thought it was fine. But I am personally talking about reports to the mods via PM. I am only talking about the times when we were allowed to do that. I am talking before report tickets.

I am not looking for a fight. I am expressing my opinions here. Because you know what? If I had been expressing them on PI, I would have been banned.

But, Soup, I feel like you might be biased. If you are a mod from PI, you would honestly need to step back and take a look from a user''s point of view.

Wow. Just wow.

You people can bash PI all you want. And if you can't handle it when people enforce the rules, then go to hell, you darn jerks. Honestly, I now see Secundi for what it really is. Just a bunch of whiners who can't stop complaining about how everything sucks. Honestly, I'm sick of how everyone here whines about how PI is "OMG SO EVIL."

And why am I doing this? Because I can. Hah. And now I'm prolly going to get banned from this site because of what I've just said. Such hypocrisy.

We are not whinners. Everything said here that I have read so far seems  pretty true to me :/

[Silvanon]

For myself - I understand that PI MODs are enforcing its rules as they are laid out.  I just think PI's rules need some revisions.  The purpose of banning someone without a warning is to try to discourage people from doing that thing in the first place.  Honest mistakes can't be discouraged by harsh penalties, because the person didn't realize they were doing something wrong in the first place.  You can argue that the person should have taken care to know the rules better, but they're not going to if they believe they already understand the rules.  So, the harsh penalty has no effect on the frequency of honest mistakes, and simply serves to alienate the players.  I think PI and its players would be better served by changing the rules so that infactions like a first time offence using the report button when it wasn't warrented simply gets a warning.

And, may I add, a harsh penalty is particularly ineffective in discouraging other players from making the same honest mistakes when there is little to no discussion of the banning allowed on PI.  Given that PI allows little education of the public via example, I think warnings rather than bannings for first offenses are particularly desirable.

[Ryuukokoro]

That's really well said, Silvanon, and exactly what I was thinking. It seems ridiculous to some people that we keep talking and/or "whining" about this rule, but doesn't the fact that so many people feel the need to comment about it indicate that it might be something worth revising? Or at least looking at from another point of view?

Personally, I can't believe that someone making one unnecessary report is a banning offense. As Silvanon said (much better worded than I) it doesn't cut down on the unnecessary reporting and only frustrates and alienates the players... and they're not allowed to even talk about it on PI, so then the result is that they come here and then get attacked for "whining" outside of PI.

Edit: Edited because I was mistaken, thank you PM.

[PonyMama]

Wolf's isn't a PI mod.  and Soup is not saying we are whining, Wolf was.  She was told to chill (in better words) but yeah.  Sil said it wonderfully, way better then I could have.

[Dunkel.Prinzessin204]

Alright I think I'm going to add my two cents. It's probably not a good idea but whatever. I think that getting banned for reporting a word that you find offensive is wrong and unless you were some how mini modding I don't see why you would be banned for it. Having that same word staring back at you is insensitive especially when you have already let them know it offends you. Now I like PI, in fact the only real problem I have with them is the way they handled the kennel stuff. I don't log on very often anymore over there but I think it is a good site for kids. As it is a MLP style site I think it should be kids safe which means a lot of stuff is not allowed. Basically I think it should be a Disney cartoon over there and for the most part it is.

On the subject of banning I do think the no warnings system isn't a good one but I know some MODs do give out warnings while others don't. I really think that just makes new players feel like they aren't welcome and just ticks off older players. Now new Mods are always needed when you have a community as large as that one but with ever new Mod is a new interpretation of the rules.(Hence the ban happy mods comments)

[bewilderness]

What Silvanon said...first offense should get a warning.

[Soup]

Obviously everyone does not know who I am, I have mentioned who I am on Pony Mama's thread, but I'll do it again.  Hello, I am Karasu

What Silvanon said...first offense should get a warning.

There is an inherent problem with this, in that as the users are using the report function, which as I have already stated is designed to report HIGHLY offensive things such as porn, there is no way in which we can document who has been given their first warning for what.  Which is why the ticket system was implemented.  Using the report button is supposed to mean "OMG, theres something REALLY REALLY bad in this thread, so much so that if 5 people report it gets deleted!"  The report system is meant to be URGENT, DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER.

Support tickets on the other hand are for "Hey, look.  I saw this potsed and you know what I am not sure that its allowed on PI, or I think it shouldn't be.  Could you guys take a look at it for me?" which then gives a user the opportunity to get opinions from more than one MOD (handy) and it also allows the MODs to have a handy archive of these questions.  Because then if it comes up again and again and again we can say "Ok so far x people have brought up this - we need to look at it"

Thats why banning for reporting threads which do not break PI rules is there.  The 1st warning is in the rules.  Should we "warn" for art theft the first time around?  Should we warn for commenting on a sellers price, again something clearly in the rules?  Should we warn for some of the truly horrible things some people on PI say?  where do we draw the line?