Rasa needs a Rant! (PI Related)

[tierasa]

Read at your own risk....

So I posted this thread over on the PI Pet Association last week. You don't have to read it as I'll just summarize below.

http://www.ponyisland.net/index.php?src=forum&sub=replies&forum=181&topic=2576914

Brief summary,   it was just a post about how my grandmother's chow had had puppies and then suddenly turned into a commentary by parties within the thread about how she must not be a reputable breeder because of information on her website which I maintain. I had some dates wrong.

Anyway, WTH!  I wasn't looking for opinions about the dogs or the site. I sure in the heck wasn't expecting a MOD to start criticizing my grandmother who she doesn't even know. And NOW, someone else has butted their nose in to also critique the information on the site and my grandmother.  Where do they get off? It was just supposed to be a thread to celebrate the new puppies!

Any ideas on how I should handle this?  Rules of the Association state that people aren't supposed to make mean-spirited remarks or personal attacks and say to take it to one of the two owners of the association, but given that a MOD is involved I'm not sure I really want to do that. I'd probably just end up getting myself a nice ban. They'd probably say they were just disagreeing with me, and that those are allowed.  In any case, I'm really unhappy.

[Willow]

D:

That really was an unnecessary dig, and just because a MOD was involved shouldn't make it any less offending, it seems to me like they're on the verge of one of their own rules :/

Really...it's just pants that they'd put a downer on an obviously happy thread :3

I on the other hand, would love to get a link to the website if possible ^3^
I'd love to see the pups
And congratulations to Icy!
~Willow

ETA:
Now you say it's a rule not to personally attack somebody?
Sounds like they're breaking that rule slightly, this really seems like a dig at your grandma, plain and clear :/

Given that Chows are considered to be a dangerous breed in the US, you'd think your grandmother would be a little less cavalier about the bite inhibition social lessons those puppies REALLY should be learning.

>:|

[tierasa]

Yeah. I just saw that, and I'm pretty furious.  I am determined not to reply to this nonsense anymore. My last reply was simply to admit that I had been wrong.  It's just like her first comment. "I'm sorry to say this, but your grandmother doesn't seem like a very reputable breeder to me."

For cute puppy pics.

http://jmchows.webs.com/puppies.htm

[Midnight Phantom]

hm I think you should tell a different mod(or just make a case) with the link to the thread and a link to the rules about mean-spirited remarks. As you said it is a thread to celebrate the puppies not anything to do with breeders which they are pushing it towards including implying insult.

[Orchid]

Left my own little tid bit there, i feel as if some MODS on pi need to be stripped of their titles. I dont feel that any mod should be allowed to play sides as they tend to have favorites and so on its all rather annoying.

I love the puppies, the cream red and cinnamon i adore.  I wish i could have one alas i have a very large shepherd girl waiting for me to get home (hospital stay) and with a smaller home i seriously doubt i could fit in a chow or otherwise ><

[Willow]

<3 the cream pup
Very cute pups, and lovely dogs ^^
~Willow

[PonyMama]

fine if they want to say cute pups, but maybe they shoudl stay with their mom for longer, as they learn more social behaviour in those ages after 6 weeks, but to call your grandmother out and be rude is breaking PI rules. Or is at least on the verge of doing so.

MOD or not you should be able to report that thread as mean spirited remarks were stated and uncalled for.  Obviously it felt offensive maybe ask if threads going off topic could be added to the rules.

and who said breeders have to breed the show standard anyways, how else have people gotten away with selling "designer" dogs.  She is obvioudly breeding chows for people who want a chow as a pet, not to show.

[tierasa]

My grandmother's chows are all excellent companion animals. We have one of the ones she bred and we couldn't ask for a dog with a better temperment. She's obedient and smart and already protective of her new family, and we didn't get her until she was 10 weeks old. So we've had her just over a month now. She'll be four months in four days.  So what if she doesn't breed show quality animals. They aren't sold that way. I can handle criticism. Really I can, but when she made the comment about my grandmother, that's when I got mad.

Orchid thanks for your comments.  That honestly makes me feel better.

My favorite of the pups is the little red one. He's going to be beautiful. There's also a little runt who is already smart as a whip.

[PonyMama]

My Aunt and Uncle breed Catahoulas, which is the Louisianna State dog, and they live in Canada.  They follow standards and make sure all puppies are papered.

But they also breed Bengal cats.  No papers, just as another income and to spread the love for this very pretty spotted cat.  We have one fo their cats, adn she is a bit skittish, but is coming around, and she ahs never drawn claws or bit a child and we have a baby crawling around allt he time now.

I like the blue girls, but I do like blue dogs

[BabyKittenCandy]

*hugs Dear*

I shall watch the thread now, seeing Orchid's post

No advice other than ignore them dear.

[Orchid]

PM ive always been interested in that breed as im a lover of all merle dogs, however ive heard that they can be possessive over one person or extremely protective in nature (to the point that they could harm other family). Is this something thats true to the breed? or just on a dog to dog basis?

Bengal cats are so lovely, i have 3 domestic short hairs but would eventually LOVE to have a pure bred cat as ive never had the chance to. Ive always leaned towards the perisan as that squished face just kills me but they are very high maintenance which is a major let down for me as a cat tends to be a very independent creature i wouldnt want one that was constantly in need of care (tis why i adore my cats, they go about their business and leave people be for the most pat).

As you guys can see i need to live on a farm >< id take in every stray and empty out the shelters XD

[Orchid]

I got a little smartsy fartsy with them, and being so may get myself a ban but so be it. Ill stay here with you all in secundi and go about my merry way.

People like that just annoy me, ive always been a firm believer in the 'dont get your giggles from others pain" rule it drives me mad to see someone intentionally but someone else down. They know what they are doing, and its incredibly immature of them.

[PonyMama]

I owned two catahoulas, and my aunt and uncle have owned a total of 4 breeding pairs (not at one time) and I believe it is a dog to dog basis.  they have a nice bark and like to use it, but all the catahoulas I have met would only lick you to death.  although one might have cornered you if you entered his yard, until my uncle told him to back off, but still no bite unless danger was sensed.

[Sunchaser]

>.> *might have to contact you about a puppy depending on if this is the breed floof wants* <.<

[Orchid]

PM sounds like my shepherd girl >< her bark is very ermm present XD im not sure how shed react maybe if we were not at home but as soon as you open the door she wags her tail and trys to run you over (at 125 + lbs she can do it to)

[PonyMama]

Both my Catahoulas had to be given away when my mom and dad got a divorce, my dad wanted nothign to do with them and my mom and I had to move to an apartment.  We foudn them a home together with a moan who was lookign for one catahoula since she had one already, but she took both.  I found out later (about 4 years later) my male had gotten himself run over, but the female lived until she passed of old age.

they were so friendly and I have told my "hubby" that if I ever get a dog it will be a catahoula. 

On a more thread based note:
I read my aunt and Uncle's Purchase Policy and they dont' release puppies before 7 weeks, they say pickup is 7-8 weeks

[Neocridders]

It's lovely how about half a year ago, a certain mod got all mad at people doing this to her. She had been talking about her dog and someone said something and she went odf on them.
It's wonderful that you havn't gone off on the people and forced yourself to stop replying.
I think it's bogus that Mods can even get mad at others for things like that, yet here they are critisizing an otherwise exciting event.
Seriously. Who brings up things like that in a 'New puppies' thread.
Tell a mod that it's supposed to be talking about new puppies, not how to breed what and blah blah. I mean, it's aginst PI rules to go that off topic and to have responses like that. :/ Adorable puppies! Awww

[Orchid]

Personally i know many breeders whom release their pups at 6 weeks, back when i was younger this was the norm. I think through a little bit of superstition and keep up with the jones (kinda like how it was normal to drink from the water hose as a kid and now most parents flip their lids over it) the age has risen to 7-8 weeks.

The reason i know this is because my father at one point bred ACDs, and he released at 6 weeks. Mostly because that was the perfect timing for pup to become attached to its new owner rather then us or its mother. My grandparents also bred german shepherds (though they have since retired from the buisness) and they released at 6 weeks, somtimes 7 depending on how well the puppy had weaned.

Now i do know that sometimes 'hobby breeders' can be bad, i know this because i had my own personal encounter with one this past summer (of 09). We bought a pup from her that was older because if felt horridly for her (she was a long hair and outside in the hot sun, mean while her mother was in the kennel next to her tending to a new litter of pups no water present) We ended up having to return the animal after she about took off my husbands hand while he was pouring food. She was incredibly backwards and shy, everything we did for her just made it worse. The breeder basically treated us like crap because i told her i was willing to give her another try and switch out the dog for a younger puppy and hope for the best, she told us that since we couldnt handle and older pup theres no way we could handle a younger one. So we returned her for a full refund, non the less i noticed after actually looking at her papers that she was SEVERLY inbred and when i brought it up with the breeder she said that was perfectly normal 'line breeding' Now i know my line breeding okay, ive seen it in horses and yes its okay when the horse has a great great great great grandfather the same on both sides but when theres multiple times when more then one animals name pops up on a pedigree thats just plain wrong

For instance

Her great grand father was the same on both sides. Her grandmother was her grandmother on both sides and her father was bred to his daughter to make her O.o shouldve checked her pedigree before hand i know ><

[tierasa]

That's why I don't understand all of this "They aren't show quality" stuff. I've seen the pedigrees of some show dogs and they are horribly inbred.  Even if they produce what looks like a breed standard dog, that doesn't guarantee a good temprement or good health even if the parents are OFA and CERF. *shakes head*

I'd rather know I'm getting a good dog from a loving home. I handle all of my grandmother's dogs even Duke who is her biggest male. I can even put my hand in his mouth and he won't bite me. They are the sweetest dogs. I don't have to worry about being bitten or bothered in any way as long as I have permission to be in the yard. They are very well trained and cared for. They look rough right now because they are shedding, and she's older so it's difficult for her to brush them. I'm going to go help her with that later this week.

As for release time, she's old school. She's been doing this twenty plus years but will not let them go before six weeks.  Like I said, we didn't get ours until she was ten.

[Orchid]

On pi ive noticed people have a knack for bringing others down, and more so in the pet area then anywhere. It could be jealously i suppose but i think they just do it to entertain themselves more so then anything. In RL they are probably to whatever to actually say something like that to someones face but online they dont have to suffer for it so they just do it at their own free will..

I personally adore your grandmothers dogs as their coats seem like they may be easier to tend to then the more fluffy ones. Like i said ive seen much worse out of 'good breeders', because they let the female labor and have the pups outside often unsupervised. More so what ive found seperates a good breeder from one whoms a 'back yard breeder' is price. I mean just because you hike your prices up and have a 'champion' stud dosnt mean the pups are any better then anyone elses. Thats what i ran into with the breeder this past summer. Her stud was yes champion blood, very lovely and so on but DANG i paid way to much for the pup because of it, and still ended up with an animal i couldnt trust around my family.

I would say if youd brush out the dogs, sorta pose them like you would in a show it may make the presentation a little more valuable but what gets me and makes me think these would be a pup id be interested in is how well momma looks taken care of.

I really look for a pup at age 6 weeks, basically because like ive said its a great time for the pup to bond. Ive seen people adopt pups at five weeks and them still do fabulous in new homes. I dont want a pup whoms 12 weeks of age and so attached to its litter mates and mother that it wants nothing to do with me..that makes no sense. I could buy a pup at 6 weeks and train it myself, or buy one older possibly have to resocialize the animal and take it to obedience classes because its turned towards other animals more so then humans. I think the perfect time is 6-8 weeks, 10 weeks at most for a release on pups.

[SeaCrest]

AWW! I love the cream and cinnamon pups! And as for the users, I totally agree that that is overstepping the boundary line. Then again, i can't do anything since my TRI expired and TRI's can't post anyway Otherwise, I would post and say something!

[springacres]

I too love, love, love the cream and cinnamon pups!  And I have to add - the dogs in the pictures look happy, healthy and well cared for which in itself says something about the breeder's standards.  I would consider that more important than a show pedigree.  (Although - and this is just my personal opinion - I would still want information about the parents' OFA and CERF status if I were considering buying any breed that I knew to be prone to hip or elbow dysplasia or eye problems.)

[tierasa]

Thanks everyone. All I really wanted was to show off the beautiful puppies. It's unusual to have one of every  coat color in a litter like this, and initially we thought the little cream boy was going to be albino cause he was born solid white with his pink nose and paw pads.

I appreciate everyone's comments about the situation, the puppies, and the dogs themselves here and on PI.  I just got so mad about it that I had to talk about it somewhere. Thank you for hearing me out.

I will definitely continue to post pictures of the pups on the website. I go to take more on Friday after they've opened their eyes though my grandmother has said that she saw one already trying to stand on it's own today.

[Leafy]

tl;dr for like half this thread, lol, but (insert anti-PI, venomous. obscenity filled rant here) I'd love to tell most of the PI mods where to stick their heads, rear storage compartment.

My aunt, who was a show breeder at the earliest would release puppies at 6 weeks, they can yip and yap all they want about "proper socialization" but that is the job of the OWNER. You can't rely on the breeder to leave the puppies with the mom for even as long as three months and think "oh little Buddy's gonna be just fine when I drop him off at doggy daycare at 2 years old, he was with momma for a long time " and thing everything will be sunshine and daisies. No. No it's not you raging moron. Sure, Puppies need to play with each other and learn that some things aren't kosher, BUT, once those teeth go in, and they're chewing on each other, you know what comes next? ANYTHING THEY CAN FIT IN THEIR MOUTHS. Mom's not gonna teach them not to do this. Other puppies aren't going to teach them not to do this, in fact, they'll just gang up like piranhas and destroy it faster. Mom and siblings also aren't going to teach the puppy not to make messes in the house. What, do these people think puppies come pre-trained? That's silly. (Read: UTTER FREAKING MORONS)

All leaving the puppy with mom for longer does is let it play some more and figure out that yes, that does hurt, now let me bite your leg. It also gives the breeder a little longer to make their final cut from the keepers, show stock, and pet stock. Since your grandmother breeds for temperament, this is not an issue. Props to your Grandmother for breeding for temperament as opposed to just flinging dogs out at all angles because she can and not giving a moment to think "Is this right for the breed? Am I only looking at $$ signs? Is this dog going to EAT A BABY because I bred parents with bad temperaments?" If more people bred for temperament, pitt bulls wouldn't have such a bad rap, Chihuahuas wouldn't be the worthless, deformed midgets they're becoming, bull dogs wouldn't be a vet's dream for income and a parent's wost nightmare with skin conditions and sleep apnea. At least she's giving consideration to ensuring these puppies won't turn into the next Kujo and end up in a kill shelter.

What gives any of these people the right to judge anyway? Just because they're sitting behind a computer screen they think they can say virtually whatever they please so long as it's within PI's rules, cause those are the only rules that matter right? Stupid lemming complex.

At the very LEAST, someone needs to comment on the fact that your grandmother's dogs are healthy, clearly not wormy, fat, shiny, clean and CARED for. Not matted with idk what, living in cramped kennels, or something you'd see off of Animal Cops. some of them could use better pictures, like Duke <_< From that pic, he has NO neck to speak of, is in need of a brushing, and looks beyond derpy lol. Bruiser on the other hand is lovely, I wanna squish him, nice topline, shiney coat, no big wormy belly, matted hair, or "please kill/save me now" expression.

Convenient how your one, repeatedly admitted to typo have them crawling out of the woodwork to tear you up when all you wanted to do is share pics of puppies -_-

*rage*

/endrant

[Neocridders]

This is a load of crap.

I understand it's a disagreement and that it's ok to post disagreements. But what the hell? Excuse my language, but where in the world did Rasa say anything about puppies going home before 6 weeks? No where! NO WHERE!
The mod just brought it up and started to attack her grandma. 'Shes NO resputable breeder!'
Whaaaat?

If anyone were being personally attacked in this thread, MODs would have closed it (Ktrenal, Glor, and Unconventional are all MODs, remember). A personal attack would be along the lines of "You are stupid" or "you are fat" or "you are ugly"... they refer directly to the person and are meant as insults and nothing else. If Ktrenal - or anyone in this thread - had said "Tierasa, you are stupid for doing that," that would be a personal attack. [Noting, of course, that I am not saying or implying anything like that; I have nothing against the OP or anyone in this thread.]

Umm.... hello? The mods are involved. They think they are right. MODS CAN BE WRONG, YOU KNOW.
They can go too deep and rely on each other to get saved. And guess what, they would get away with it.
The mods can be wrong. They make mistakes. They are people, they have opinions, they can be WRONG.
This just angers me

[Spixy]

Awww! I'm loving the adorable puppies <3 The momma is very beautiful. *strokes* I love the colors ^_^

I was shocked to see the MOD's reactions on PI to the thread. So what if you got the date wrong? You immediately sought out the right information and corrected it - even stating so in the thread.

I personally think that if it wasn't MODS commenting like that on the thread - the offending member would have been banned or given a warning. :/

Personally though, I'd stick with 8 weeks as that's what I've been taught and learnt through our breeder (close friend). I don't think it's even legal in Denmark for puppies to be sold before they're 8 weeks - some wait to 10 weeks. In my opinion they're more socialized and easier to get to 'interact' with other dogs just because of those two weeks. I must state though - that you're right in it depending on the owner and how much he/she chooses to socialize the puppy. I'm no expert and I don't have the 'right' answer for when puppies must be sold - but I just had to pop in with my two cents ^_^

[TheLeet]

I read that thread too and it those replies annoyed me so much. I've been considering posting on it but I hate getting into arguments with people so I didn't

[indigowulf]

Grr I was gonna post but I cant find a way to apply for that assoc. I was all ready to rant about "if youre calling it advice for other readers reading this thread, word it as such, or its an attack and you're trying to BS your way around it" but much better worded of course, thats just the gist of the idea I was gonna post and the whole "if they said you were fat or ugly or stupid, thats an attack, nobody did that" I was gonna be all "ok what do you call distreputable then???"

[Neocridders]

Indigo, that wouod ave been what I said in my next response, but I'm forcing myself to stop replying. It's just not a fight we could win unless we went directly to support ticket, and everyone did it. It would show how many people were offended.

[tierasa]

*headdesk* This has all gotten really out of hand. 

I had my dates wrong. I corrected it. I also stated simply that she won't let them go BEFORE 6 weeks not that she was sending them all off as soon as they turned 6 weeks.   I'm not going to post there anymore. I was offended for my grandmother. I understand opinions, and seriously I wouldn't have minded a simple "You may want to check your dates..." with the explanation that puppies don't usually go home until whenever. I had the dates wrong. She didn't have to mention my grandmother or her dogs to make her point. 

Anyway, I'm done with that thread.

Let's just let it die since there's no way anyone is going to support us.

[PonyMama]

I woudl ask for it to be deleted, for obvious reasons

then post here, we like puppies

[Neocridders]

We like puppies. Yus we do. Please do post some more pictures as soon as they start to grow, if you get a chance. I have a feeling these dogs will be adorable as soon as they get older. I mean, the mommy is so adorable. She looks so friendly and loveable. I can't wait to see the pups as soon as they start to grow into cute wittle puppies (that are closer to the size one would take them home at).
D'awww.

[Leafy]

I demand more postings here of puppy breath :<

If there was a perfume of puppy breath, I'd douse myself in it. There is no smell in the world quite like puppies and puppy breath, I <3 it so much.

Share your puppies with us, here we'll at least appreciate them properly and squee and ooh and aah and go all to pieces for them.

[tierasa]

Thanks guys. I wonder if I could bribe Garney to make me Chow lineart.

I will definitely have more pics as they get fluffy which is generally around 4 weeks. This week when I go we should know what their coat colors are truly going to be.

[springacres]

I read that thread too and it those replies annoyed me so much. I've been considering posting on it but I hate getting into arguments with people so I didn't

Ditto.  And please, post more puppy pics!

[Leafy]

eeee the only thing better than puppies is FLUFFY puppies :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Neocridders]

Chow for kennel... Oh no another breed I woild get in! Too many breeds, so little time!
And yes, I agree 100%with Leafy.

eeee the only thing better than puppies is FLUFFY puppies

[tierasa]

I just got back from my grandmother's.  New puppy pictures are up on the website.


OMG the little red one almost killed me. He looked up at me with this expression of pure cute and I died.

The largest puppy weighs 2lbs. They went to the vet today, and everyone is healthy if a few of them are a little under weight. They were already trying to walk around today. It was so so so cute.

[Neocridders]

Dawww.
That's precious

[Ryuukokoro]

Omgomg the pics of the previous litter, with the pups in the basket? D'AWWW!

[PonyMama]

I still like the pretty blue ones

[tierasa]

The little cinnamon girl in the basket is my Ming. Sooooooooooooooooooo cute, right? Who couldn't love that little face.

I'm seriously in love with the little red boy too. Mom says no more dogs though. Ming is still too little for us to get another one.

[tierasa]

OMG!!!! Adorable puppy pics have been posted.  If you thought the Easter Baskets were cute... I've got cuteness overload for you now.

Here's a teaser.

[PonyMama]

OMG that is freaking adorable!