The Stable | Looking for 3 pairs

[Whimsy]

I may be nabbing up 3 foaling paddocks so i need to get three pairs to use.


Im looking for either
Warmblood
Draft
or
Mustang

Please feel free to post your pairs or singles if you dont mind me using them

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Thanks Whimsy!

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I need for sure
Warmblood Double Creme Stallion

[YourLoveOnly]

Are you looking for free studs/RBs or are you offering something in return?
And do you need help predicting outcomes?

I have several stunning draft horses available for free, but only when combined with certain coats to figure out all of their genes.

[Whimsy]

Looking for them and im looking for at least one sooty buckskin, i love the coat 

If you could help me on how to get something like that id be uber happy other then that feel free to post whom i may use and what i need to breed them with

[YourLoveOnly]

Note: I will not allow Overo x Overo breedings to avoid lethal whites.

I will list the ones available for free. I have more, some with really interesting genes, but those are only available for large fees.

Black Orchid x Clumsy Card House have produced a sooty buckskin together before, but there is no guarantee they will do that again of course.

Males

Coat Color: bay dun
Genetic code: E? A? cc rr D? gg ww ll ?? tt oo ?? ?? zz ??
Last bred: Never
Free studdings when paired with the following: any non-dun, black, chestnut, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, splash or frame overo, fleabitten grey


Coat Color: black roan sabino overo
Genetic code: E? aa cc Rr dd gg ww ll ?? tt Oo Pp ?? zz ??
Last bred: 3-29-'10
Free studdings when paired with the following: chestnut, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, fleabitten grey


Coat Color: palomino tobiano
Genetic code: ee ?? C? rr dd gg ww ll ?? TT oo ?? ?? ?? ??
Last bred: 3-8-'10
Free studdings when paired with the following: black, flaxen, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, splash or frame overo, fleabitten grey


Coat Color: perlino sabino overo
Genetic code: Ee A? CC rr dd gg ww ll ?? tt Oo Pp ?? zz ??
Last bred: Never
Free studdings when paired with the following: black, flaxen, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, fleabitten grey

Females

Coat Color: bay silver dapple
Genetic code: E? A? cc rr dd gg ww ll ?? tt oo ?? ?? Z? ??
Last bred: Never
Free reverse breeds when paired with the following: any non-silver dapple, black, chestnut, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, splash or frame overo, fleabitten grey


Coat Color: sooty buckskin tobiano
Genetic code: E? At? Cc rr dd gg ww ll ?? TT oo ?? ?? zz ??
Last bred: 3-29-'10
Free reverse breeds when paired with the following: black, chestnut, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, splash or frame overo, fleabitten grey


Coat Color: chestnut flaxen
Genetic code: ee ?? cc rr dd gg ww ll ?? tt oo ?? ff ?? ??
Last bred: Never
Free reverse breeds when paired with the following: black, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, splash or frame overo, fleabitten grey


Coat Color: black tobiano
Genetic code: E? aa cc dd rr gg ww ll ?? T? oo ?? ?? zz ??
Last bred: Never
Free reverse breeds when paired with the following: any non-tobiano, chestnut, leopard or snowflake appaloosa, splash or frame overo, fleabitten grey


Coat Color: golden buckskin splash overo leopard appaloosa
Genetic code: E? A? Cc dd rr gg ww L? nn tt Oo pp ?? zz ??
Last bred: Never
Free reverse breeds when paired with the following: any non-appaloosa, black, chestnut, fleabitten grey

[Whimsy]

If you dont mind YLO, id love to have these pairings

Black Orchid & PRN

Kangroo Cry & Chameleon Boy-possibly

I want to use the first pair for sure but i want to make sure no one else has something id like to use first

[springacres]

I'll just link you to my Stable breeding thread: http://www.secundi.net/forum.php?topic=1901.0

I don't have any Warmbloods, but my Drafts and Mustangs are available.  The only caveat is that Shock Rocker and Hehewuti cannot be bred together since he is her son.

[YourLoveOnly]

Black Orchid & PRN are both overo, so no they may not be used together.

[YourLoveOnly]

By the way, this is the sooty buckskin that is offspring of Clumsy Card House and Black Orchid:
http://stable.colbyforkicks.com/gallery/d/3574-1/534.png
Just so you have an idea of what they can possibly produce.

[Whimsy]

Herm ill go with clumsy card house then

[YourLoveOnly]

That's good Kangaroo Cry x Chameleon Boy is also approved if you want to do both. If you have another pair in mind do ask approval before posting the breeding. I will check the Stable thread and post permissions for any approved pair.

[Whimsy]

I think YLO ill try both of those pairs i wanted to and then see what this thread turns up the in a few days and see if theres any other drafts offered (seeing as im already using to pairs and getting two draft babies i better just stick with those.)

Spring i love you male draft however with YLOS boy being so close to him i dont want to end up with two blue roan foals lol

Do these sound right for guess's YLO

First Pair
Sooty Buckskin Roan Tabino

Second Pair (chameleon boy pair)
Silver Bay Dun

And i may change from kangroo cry to prn which my guess would be
Dunskin Leopard Appaloosa

[red_uni387]

http://www.stable.colbyforkicks.com/gallery/v/Horse+Owners/red_uni387

off limits: 003, 270, 354, 474, 519, 602

ask if you'd like to know coat colors

[Whimsy]

Okay acutally YLO i think im going to use sleep to dream and clumsy card house, because the way ravv told me how to do a sooty i think maybe that would be a better bet for my sooty buckskin So long as that ones okay im deff going to do that breed..then ive got to figure out my other ones!

gosh i hope i get these paddocks im so ready to do some breedings

[toffeeca]

You can check out my horses here. Most are drafts and they are free when paired with horses that have certain traits.
http://www.secundi.net/forum.php?topic=1937.0

Also, just a note, YLO's Sleep to Dream and Clumsy Card House, don't fulfill any of the requirements for each other. Its up to YLO if she wants to allow that but I just thought I would let you know so you can think of back ups in case.

[YourLoveOnly]

For the Chameleon Boy pairing, both pairings would be okay.

For Chameleon Boy x PRN I would guess black based dun appaloosa.
They have not been bred before, so both the dun and appaloosa could be homozygous in which case there's a 100% chance of them passing. The overo is always Oo so only 50% chance of passing. Dun and appy also have a 50% chance if they are heterozygous, but because you don't know if they are heterozygous or homozygous it would be better to guess those than to guess overo.

For Chameleon Boy x Kangaroo Cry I would guess black based dun silver dapple.
Same thing as before, not bred before so a shot at them being homozygous and passing on the dun and silver dapple for sure. If they are heterozygous it has a 50% chance of passing.

With both guesses I expect you to at least get some points (2 right, 1 wrong would still give you 3 owner points and 2 foal points).

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Now for the sooty buckskin: Sleep to Dream x Clumsy Card House is not a better pair. I shall run you through their genes. The agouti is most important, but I will explain it all. Lenghty post ahead, be warned.

First the cream gene:
- Sleep to Dream has CC, double cream, so the baby will defenitely have one cream gene. If Clumsy Card House also passes her creme gene the baby will be perlino instead of buckskin (50% chance).
- Black Orchid has cc, no cream, so if Clumsy Card House passes her cream gene
Odds for the cream gene are even no matter which pair you pick, so it could depend on which outcome you like better if it fails to become buckskin (so if you'd rather have bay/brown or perlino)
But the other genes do matter to increase your chances of sooty buckskin.

The base:
- Sleep to Dream is Ee, so he carries red. Clumsy Card House base is unknown, but if she's a red carrier as well you can end up with palomino or cremello foals.
- Black Orchid and Clumsy Card House, both have an unknown base so in theory they could both be chestnut carriers, but in case at least one of them is EE you could never end up with a chestnut foal, you will always get a black based one which is what you are after.

And then finally and most importantly, the agouti.
Sooty Buckskin is AtAt or Ata. This means one horse needs to pass At and the other needs to pass on At or a to get a sooty buckskin.
- Clumsy Card House has At? so at least one At gene. The question mark is either At or a so there's a 1/2 chance that she's AtAt and she will then ALWAYS pass on the At gene needed for sooty buckskin.  If she's Ata there is still a 50% chance that she passes on the At gene. So the odds of her passing on At are way better. If she passes on At then all you need for the second gene is a.
- Sleep to Dream has A? as agouti. We do not know what the ? is, but we know he has A and there is a 50% chance he passes on that A gene, which immediately makes it impossible to get a sooty buckskin. We do not know his second gene, but if that gene is also A (1/3 chance) you could never ever get a sooty buckskin out of this combination.
- Black Orchid is aa, so he will defenitely pass on the a gene. If Clumsy Card House passes on At then you have your sooty buckskin foal! (50% chance if she's Ata, 100% chance if she's AtAt ) In the unlikely event that Clumsy Card House is Ata and they both pass on their a gene you will end up with black or smokey black depending on the creme gene (and black + tobiano is always pretty in my opinion ^^)

The best thing would be a male with At just in case Clumsy Card House is Ata and not AtAt and also passes on the a gene, but odds of that happening are a lot smaller and I do not have a male with a known At gene. In theory Sleep to Dream could have At but it's a 1/3 chance and it would only matter if Clumsy Card House has and passes on the a gene. If Clumsy Card House is AtAt this is not an issue and even if she's Ata there's a 50% chance of her passing on the At gene. Then you only need a and Black Orchid would guarantee the a gene, but with Sleep to Dream you know there's at least a 50% chance he passes on A (100% if Sleep to Dream is AA, which we don't know). In conclusion, I think Black Orchid is your safest bet to produce the foal you want.

For guessing: I would go with black based tobiano or black based tobiano overo. (you may also read roan instead of overo, as the same is true for both of them)
Tobiano is guaranteed to be right, black based is extremely likely especially with the Black Orchid x Clumsy Card House pairing (but still has very good odds for the other pair too) and overo has a 50% of passing. You can go with black based tobiano and most likely get 2 right so 6 owner points (enough for a tag-it or another foaling paddock!) and 3 foal points. You can also go with black based tobiano overo. If you get 3 right you end up with 10 owner points and 5 foal points, but if the overo fails to pass on you will only get 3 owner points and 2 foal points so it's a bit more of a gamble. Then finally you COULD get black based tobiano roan overo. Chances of both passing are unlikely. If overo ór roan passes you will still have 6 owner points and 3 foal points just like with black tobiano (but the chances of getting black based tobiano right are MUCH higher) and if both the overo and roan fail to pass you get no points at all, so I would not do this guess.

Note: Sleep to Dream and Clumsy Card House indeed also do not fullfill requirements as toffeeca mentioned, so if you really wanna do that pairing you would need to provide some sort of fee. But again, I recommend the other pairing.

Note2: all genetics known for my horses are a combination of basic genetic codes and then discovering extra genes by breeding them and/or looking at their parents. If one parents is aa for example, you know the baby carries at least an a gene. Just in case some people are wondering how I know certain things, like I know Sleep to Dream is Ee but has never been bred, I know it because one parent is chestnut.

[Whimsy]

Okay ylo, im going to post the Clumsy Card house &  black orchid i believe youve already posted the permission for them.

Im going to see how this breed goes before i do anything else.

[YourLoveOnly]

Will post permission now. You should have guessed black based though. Sooty buckskin is also a black based coat and it's easier to get right because it's less specific.

And the paint is called Tobiano, not Tabino. If you type Tabino ravv may get confused if you meant tobiano or sabino, because both would be possible for this breeding but only tobiano is guaranteed so I would only guess that.